Does anyone know if TfL and/or Lewisham Council plan to do something to widen the pedestrian island(s) opposite Forest Hill station, or at least re-phase the lights? They are getting dangerously overcrowded, sometimes such that people have to stand outside the barriers.
With the new venue imminently opening too, it feels like an accident waiting to happen. I can’t see how it will cope with lots more people.
It is certainly something that Councillor Roberts (@Annabelle) and I are aware of. We are in the middle right now of conversations with Council officers and external stakeholders to explore some options for wider regeneration of the area around Forest Hill station, which would necessitate changes and improvements to that crossing.
Once we have a better sense of feasibility/timescale for any larger regeneration initiatives, we can look at pushing for some smaller-scale interim fixes - because I agree with you that the crossing is only going to come under more strain with the opening of the new Gambado centre on London Road.
This is all complicated slightly by the fact that the road is part of a Red Route - which means management responsibility sits with TfL rather than the Council. But we can certainly flag the issue, lobby them for improvements, and offer to work constructively to find solutions that better serve the needs of pedestrians (and also make the crossing more accessible to parents with prams and residents in wheelchairs).
Thanks for the super fast response! Yes appreciate the TfL connection; Will Norman seems very good on these things but aware just how long the crossing down the road towards East Dulwich took.
I just can’t quite compute in my head how it will work in the interim; assume the planning permission means the new venue will have closed each day by the time rush hour happens, but not checked. It’s the kind of thing a risk assessment would have picked up.
How is Gambardo’s going to affect the crossing outside the station (assuming you mean the one on Devonshire Road)? It would make more sense to use the crossing at the bottom of Dartmouth Road to get straight to the Gambardo’s side of London Road.
People tend to rotate their patterns depending on what is green or not. The main point, regardless of new openings, is that the crossing opposite, and indeed the one you are talking about, are already dangerously overcrowded at peak times, and it needs sorting regardless of what new businesses are arriving.
There are too many people forced to just run across the south circular when there is a gap in the traffic or risk missing a train, all because the phasing of the lights is clearly not taking into account people on foot, and seems to have been determined years ago by somone in TfL who has only looked at traffic flows, which may have been policy at the time.
Good to hear on this thread though that the new council is looking at it!
As a Forest Hill resident I find the centre of the town particularly hazardous for pedestrians. The south circular widens to two lanes in both directions which encourages cars to speed up coming into the centre.
In my view the pavements need to be widened with traffic calming to reduce speeding vehicles. The major 3 way crossing in the centre needs redesigning and would benefit from simultaneous crossing in all directions to avoid standing on islands in the middle of the road whilst lorries fly past.
The route from the railway station to the Horniman is poorly signed and should be made much clearer and easier to navigate as our major landmark. The crossing by the Tesco petrol station and Honor Oak road is particularly challenging with no light for pedestrians to cross.
Obviously FH is far down the priority list for Lewisham council, building empty tower blocks in Lewisham town centre and the Catford regeneration.
Simultaneous crossing and traffic calming make a lot of sense!
Having spent some time watching from above lately, the crossing habits of people are very much all over the place. Even normal footfall with people going to and from the shops, the island can be very busy.
When the railings went in and the lights were slightly moved the island became far more cramped.
It will never be big enough to accommodate trains arriving. The only logical approach in my opinion is an ALL STOP phase, allowing diagonal crossing etc. Obviously this is problematic for traffic flow, but then so are accidents.
I have also noted lately that the pedestrian phase seems to be skipped completely from time to time. Leaving people building up in the island for a second cycle.
Totally agree. And yes the totally random “skip” of the ability to complete the crossing, if heading from the station towards sainsburys - which seems to happen about once or twice a day and mostly when it is late and dark - is potentially lethal for locals who are used to the patterns. Almost got run over myself when they first started doing that, and its on a bend too!
I’ve suggested elsewhere for a diagonal (or maybe triangular) crossing like the one at Oxford Circus, where all traffic stops and pedestrians cross in whichever direction they need to.
It turns out that the Oxford Street crossing is not the only one of its type in London.
Question and answer from ‘Questions to the Mayor [of London]’ in 2009:
Question: Diagonal Crossing
Does the decision to allow the introduction of diagonal crossings at Oxford Circus clear the way for the introduction of more diagonal crossings throughout London?
Answer: Date: Monday 25 May 2009
Diagonal crossings are not a new innovation and are in fact an established part of the package of measures available to highway authorities to enable pedestrians to cross the road safely and conveniently. Such crossings were introduced some years ago by TfL on the Transport for London Road Network e.g. at Battersea Park Road / Queenstown Road; and TfL will continue to consider their use where appropriate and would encourage other highway authorities to do the same. Some boroughs do already make use of these, and examples include at Acton Lane/Avenue Road and at Orange Hill/Watling Avenue in Edgware.
Another question in 2014:
Question: Diagonal Crossings
How many diagonal crossings like the one in Oxford Circus are there in London?
Answer: Date: Monday 24 November 2014
Twelve signalled diagonal crossings have been introduced in London, including Oxford Circus. Locations are;
Oxford Circus - Regent Street
Kingsland High Street - Dalston Lane
Kennington Road - Kennington Lane
Falcon Road - Lavender Hill
Battersea Rise - Northcote Road
Queenstown Road - Battersea Park Road
Balham High Road - Upper Tooting Road
Balham High Road - Balham Station Road
Wimbledon Park Road - Replingham Road
Chingford Mount Road - Hall Lane
Winchester Street - Acton Lane
Watling Avenue - Orange Hill Road
So it’s not such a pie in the sky idea to ask for this in Forest Hill.
Is anyone familiar with any of crossings? Are there similarities with the layout in Forest Hill?
A quick Google shows a few of the examples you listed above. All very plausible, and surely one of the cheapest and easiest options to execute.
Please make sure that TFL make the junction properly safe for cyclists, too.
Re your point Judith: one solution should potentially be to have one tradfic lane for turning towards East Dulwich and one for going ahead down Dartmouth Road… the odd situation where both lanes can be used to continue or break off, and then suddenly become one after the bend is just dangerous of all road users, incl cyclists. Amazed there aren’t more accidents tbh.
10 mins (in 3x speed) over the junction. Watching the way pedestrians, drivers and cyclists behave.
Great clip Snazy - very informative.
Cheers, will do one at rush hour for a bit longer. I find it intriguing watching as an over view of how people and vehicles behave.
Paths taken, rules followed and broken etc
It’s quite pretty and soothing to look at. I hadn’t realised so many people avoid entering the barriers on the Devonshire Road refuge and go around the outside instead.
Seems to all work well and as it should in the clip which was presumably a relatively calm time of day..
Are there any recent accident statistics for that crossing available I wonder?
