Crossing Waldram Place isn’t fun but cars usually stop to let you cross, that’s not the case on Perry Vale (except for the braver pedestrians who don’t care about the cars).
Here’s a nice screenshot from 2008, when City Walk was being built and pedestrians could use the road without fear. But even before this there was a pedestrian refuge before Hindsley Place to allow people to cross to get to the yellow area. That was just about enough to make the crossing much safer, not just at that point but a little further down due to the need for cars to leave a gap where the chevrons are.
The new building impacted sightings for cars turning out of Hindsley Place, so the pavement was built out there and possibly a little further on the other side too. As a result there is no longer space for a refuge.
When the road did reopen there was a raised table outside the subway - almost as if a crossing point might be put there bit instead we get railings to prevent pedestrians using the section of road that had been designed for a crossing point. This may mot be the best point for a crossing - the site of the refuge was about right as it has better sightlines crossing towards the subway.
And it would be good to have railing directly outside the rear exit from the station to stop crowds wandering across the road as if it was pedestrianised.
I seem to recall that when this building happened in 2008/2009 the justification for having no new crossing was that by slowing traffic to 20mph and ‘improving sight lines’ was meant to create a sense of a shared space between cars and pedestrians … Ha!
I believe there was reference to the possibility of reintroducing a crossing “if necessary” but that was to be determined by whether there had been enough incidents, so it seems we need a few more pedestrians to be injured before we can get it (not very ‘Vision Zero’)
On that note, have there been any or many accidents involving pedestrians at that spot? I know there have been a few vehicle collisions along there.
Re the barriers being removed. I believe they serve a mitigation purpose to avoid people / children blindly running out of the subway and into the road. And also to prevent a vehicle leaving the road and entering the subway, so them being removed for a crossing is unlikely.
I remember the pedestrian refuge near Hindsleys Place and it was definitely a better experience in crossing the road than it is now. But unfortunately the change of shape of the road means replacing it isn’t possible. It also wasn’t in a location that people heading to/from the ‘red’ area would use.
I was thinking about the safety aspect and how that influences whether extra measures are put in place or not. It’s not the perception of safety that matters to decision-makers, it’s the number of incidents actually happening. And frankly people aren’t being injured crossing Perry Vale.
The only times I’ve had near-misses was when traffic was stationery or slow-moving north-bound and I had to walk between cars to cross. I learnt after the first near-miss that drivers stuck in traffic focus on the car in front and lose their peripheral vision, meaning they don’t see a pedestrian trying to cross and if the car in front starts moving they just follow it. So as a pedestrian, don’t approach the car you want to walk in front of at a perpendicular angle because the driver probably won’t notice you. Take an oblique direction, aiming for a gap 2 vehicles behind the car nearest to you and ideally making eye-contact with the driver so you know they’ve seen you. Which worked fine until the driver of the car I was walking behind decided to a do U-turn and started reversing towards me. I have no advice on how to avoid that.
So I don’t think crossing Perry Vale is actually unsafe for pedestrians. A proper crossing would improve people’s perceptions of crossing the road, although, as has been noted, many people would probably still take an opportunistic approach and cross wherever was convenient. But there would likely be a greater benefit to non-regular users, especially west-side people venturing through the subway to businesses on Perry Vale. I remember comments from west-siders before the subway was cladded and the thought of using the grotty subway was a psychological barrier that dissuaded them from walking through to Perry Vale.
In summary, crossing Perry Vale isn’t actually unsafe but a permanent crossing would help some pedestrians feel safer and might improve footfall to local businesses.
Lovely summary, which I agree with. The data definitely doesn’t seem to indicate an accident blackspot or anything. There will of ciruse always be the argument that some less able bodied people and unfairly discriminated against by not having a crossing there.
Having watched the regular behaviours of large numbers of people using the road, most choose to cross when opportunities arise.
I think an issue being overlooked here is the potential pull factor of having a proper crossing. Of course people cross wherever it suits them now, because there is no guidance or clear safer route. If you build a crossing point more people will surely tend to use that than take pot luck elsewhere.
As far as accidents are concerned, that’s just one metric. We are concerned I think with making crossing safe and accessible for all types of pedestrians, not just confident road crossers who are fleet of foot.
When the roadworks were on Perry Vale a few years back and a crossing was in the place everyone wants one, it saw relatively little use compared to the volumes of people passing through the area. The if you build it they will come mantra doesn’t always work.
I can’t speak for Lewisham and their decisions made regarding the road layout, of course it would be good for all to be catered for. However the accident rate will be one of the indicators of if a crossing is required.
The other side of the subway has multiple crossing points and a high rate of accidents. Crossings don’t always equal safety
I need to point out another hazard. Often in the evening rush hour the vehicles bomb down Perry Vale once they pass City Walk. I sat watching one evening and the 20 mph sign was lit for virtually every car. The boy racers actually pass on the wrong side of the centre island at the crossing near Church Vale.
Although the reduction from 30 MPH to 20 MPH through the town centre is welcome, it means that there’s almost no point in staying on the A205 as the speed limit on this supposed main road is the same as the residential roads used as rat runs. Main roads sometimes have cameras, but side roads rarely do, so the speed reduction on the A205 has actually increased traffic and speeding on alternative routes - mainly residential unclassified roads.
Told that they couldn’t afford speed cameras I once offered to sponsor/ pay for a speed camera in Perry Vale, with the proviso that I would be paid the fine income until I got my money back. I still think that would be a good way to fund them!
How many to be killed before it is done? I was almost wiped out today. Driver stopped hazards flashing. I started to cross the road. Driver accelerated towards me (electric car so no noise). I only noticed out the corner of my eye because they left their hazards on. At least today there wasn’t a line of cars parked on the double yellows outside 31A.
