… according to this article about MEATLiquor “restructuring” the business and closing a number of their places: MEATliquor shutters bulk of estate leaving three restaurants in London
It’s a shame, but it became not one thing or the other – not quite a pub, not quite a burger place. Hopefully, someone will take over the premises.
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Oh no! That’s at the very heart of Forest Hill. Terrible news.
I do agree, that in its current incarnation (literally) it has been a bit of a shadow of its former place as the ‘origin’ of Forest Hill town centre, but this is still sad news.
It is particularly concerning since this seems to be an industry problem rather than just a local business one, so I fear it may take some time for another company or individual to take it on, but we can hope!
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Heartbreaking news. Not so much for the drink but all about the burger. Has always been a favourite of mine to meet up in to catch up with friends over lunch 
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First of all. Great forum. Nice to see an accessible format and an alternative to the other SE23 forum.
shocked, but not shocked that this place has closed. Hopeful that it will be able to reopen as an actual pub. in the current trading environment that seems unlikely…
We used to enjoy the previous version of the pub, but it lacked a variety of beers - that bar is way too small. And over half of the space was taken up by a restaurant that nobody really utilised and which felt ‘cold’. Meat liquor made decent burgers (a bit salty at times) but it wasn’t a ‘regular’ destination anymore. Rarely saw it full after it changed ownership
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thanks for joining @sleepysod
When my wife and I first moved here (20+ years ago) we used to use it regularly while we were in the process of renovating our home. It was a lovely atmosphere, good food, and a place to relax. It has changed character several times in the intervening years, and since we’re not regular ‘pub’ goers, and don’t eat burgers, I have to admit I never visited in the current guise (which is a shame, but probably not uncommon).
I’d love to see this returned as a local pub and community space. I appreciate they may need to sell food to make enough money considering the large floorspace they have and need to heat / light, but it would be great to also have a place to meet and talk in comfort without having to shout across the table because of the ‘entertainment’. It would certainly be nice to have a space that was not given over to sports TVs or the usual pool table, but a destination that would serve to make Forest Hill nightlife more varied.
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Did feel like they didn’t know if they were a fast food restaurant or a pub and I guess that doesn’t help. Fingers crossed one of the great SE London breweries takes it on - location to the station and lack of amazing craft beer pubs in FH I think they’d do ok.
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The foresters which is now a Fauna brewing pub has a pretty good selection of their beers plus a wide range of canned craft beers to choose from. And they have a great happy hour deal on beers
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Looks excellent - I didn’t even know it had changed hands!
The Dartmouth was good when I moved back into the area in 2012 - some good ales and a highly decent restaurant at the back. We dined and drank there on a number of occasions. I was dismayed it turned into a chain and a very meat oriented one (I love meat but like variety too) with unappealing decor. Hopefully it will become a good community pub with good food and atmosphere. What is the Bird in Hand like these days btw?
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I really like the Bird in Hand now. With the new management, renovation moved the toilets downstairs which opened up the back room a lot. Nice ‘pubby’ interiors and lovely staff. Unfortunately not drawing in the crowds as much as it might be too close in style to the Sylvan Post across the road and the Signal. I do think it has the capacity to be a great local pub right on Dartmouth Road. Could use a better draft selection though.
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Agree with all that. Amazingly they have a Volden (sp?) on at £3.50 a pint. Sunday evening jazz fairly regularly too, though I’ve not yet been.
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I wonder if a bar with a bookshop is a model that could work for this space? I just heard a short story that involved one at the end, and also read about this one in Balham the other day: How to join us online or in person
One challenge is the rent for that location is quite high at probably over £125k. They were asking that much even before increases since 2021. We are definitely lacking a bookshop though since the one closed where the current Jones watchmaker second spot on Dartmouth Rd stands now.
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Are you referring to what was Leaf and Groove as the seller of books?
Yes! I knew it had a clever name but couldn’t think of it off the top of my head.
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The thing is there’s the wonderful independent Kirkdale books not a million miles away and I’d hate to see their buisness lose out.
It would be really good to have something like Catford house where its very community based and also offers workshops and things.
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Oh that would be incredible, if anyone hasn’t been there yet you must. But be mindful that Catford House as an economic and social answer to a very special situation will take a few hours to read about. The backstory and the current setup are written as narratives spread over several websites.
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I called into the West End Meat Liquor today, and asked if they knew anything about the Dartmouth Arms’ future. Someone there mentioned that they think Stonegate may have taken on the lease and plan to open something in about a year or so’s time. I have no idea what the implications of that would be, or whether it is accurate.
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Thanks for looking into this Jon - that place is, or should be at least, a big part of Forest Hill so its future means a lot to the town.
It’s encouraging to hear that it might be a pub again, but I can fully appreciate why any interested party wouldn’t want to jump in and open quickly in the current economic climate; and especially with the pressure on costs in that particular business sector.
Fingers crossed though!
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Thanks John - out of interest what’s the typical annual rent on a small-ish shop? (If you don’t mind me asking). I should think it’s a lot less than the sums that were being sought when the Dartmouth Arms was on the market?
The last shop lease I did was at £1,130 pm for Kelly’s Nails at 51a Dartmouth Road when Kelly retired in July 2024 after initially taking the shop on a 6 months suck-it-and-see licence 22 years earlier in 2002.
Tell a lie - I forgot one 
- I recently rented No.95 opposite the pools for £1,350 pm.
Rents at this sort of level for small shops allows little independent to have a go at something and I always have a long chat with prospective tenants first to make assure them that they don’t have to be trapped into a long-term financial burden if things don’t work out, which isn’t the case with normal landlords (as happened to me as a shop tenant when I had to continue paying rent for 3 years after I’d ceased trading and the landlord wouldn’t accept any of my proposed assignees). The thing is, I’m always getting asked for small shops (and flats!) so I know I could re-let one within 2-3 months if any of my tenants ever feel that they need to call it a day.
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